http://mbdefault.org/forum/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:50:30 -0500 MyBB http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=9 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:43:07 -0400 http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=9 wstewart'.

Here is the link to the first Dawkins thread:

"Consciousness Survives Death"

Here is the link to the second Dawkins thread:

"Personal Identity Thought Experiment"

If upon reflection Dawkins forum members would like to annotate those old threads, they are welcome to do so here. I'd recommend posting in this very archival thread, for ease of communal reference.

Hopefully the old Dawkins threads and future Dawkins annotations will prove useful to readers of the essay. Actually I see real value in archiving and annotating one community's heated debate on Metaphysics by Default. The annotated Dawkins threads may save my readers much time, by presenting many fully-developed lines of criticism which needn't be recreated hereafter.

As backup, I attach self-contained archival copies of the first and second Dawkins threads (.rar).

Thank you.]]> wstewart'.

Here is the link to the first Dawkins thread:

"Consciousness Survives Death"

Here is the link to the second Dawkins thread:

"Personal Identity Thought Experiment"

If upon reflection Dawkins forum members would like to annotate those old threads, they are welcome to do so here. I'd recommend posting in this very archival thread, for ease of communal reference.

Hopefully the old Dawkins threads and future Dawkins annotations will prove useful to readers of the essay. Actually I see real value in archiving and annotating one community's heated debate on Metaphysics by Default. The annotated Dawkins threads may save my readers much time, by presenting many fully-developed lines of criticism which needn't be recreated hereafter.

As backup, I attach self-contained archival copies of the first and second Dawkins threads (.rar).

Thank you.]]> http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=8 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 08:21:34 -0400 http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=8
My name is Chadi... I am Druze myself, and I like forbidden simplicity in everything including the way I choose to express myself. My English is average or even less, but I know just enough for what I need...I would like to express by overall content with the spirit of this Chapter and MBD in general.
Undoubtedly, the Druze agree that the Path of Metaphysics and Natural Science converge on the cross point of the Adamic Nature itself.. otherwise, the Druze would not be the only people on earth who refuse to admit to any form of repelling conflict to have ever existed between the philosophy of the Druze Prophet Plato and his Brother in Druze Prophethood Aristotle....According to the Druze, the Adamic nature itself is a giant proof of how the two worlds are meant to interact
together. If The Universal Constructor wanted things in any other way, he would have constructed humans as pure spirits or as spiritless bodies. Anything Metaphysical must be paralleled by a Natural Translation in order for it to be knowledgeable, and anything that is beyond knowledge might as well not exist on any level, metaphysical or natural... altogether. Existence = Knowledge, and Knoweldge = Translation, and Translation = a continous Bridge between the Metaphyscial and The Physcial that must be respected in the same way as the body must be exercised and nourished even until the last living breath... From here, the Superiority of the Metaphysical over the Natural could be compared to the Superiority of the Object Translated over the Body of Translation itself... Nothing more, no fancy metaphysical empires of proof beyond this simple fact... In the world of Gnosticism which is our world as Druze, The Metaphysical needs the physical and not only the other way around... The Creator, in the Druze Wisdom, created the world based on a Gnostic Need, the need to be known... If this need could have ever been manageable without the physical world, there is no need for this world to begin with... Anything scienctific in this world must be embraced as part of the translation 1st in order to be put into perspective... Resisting change in this respect is the language of Fear and not the language of Gnosis...

Those are few basic thoughts that come to mind which I may elaborate on later on in greater depth... Excuse my grammar and vocab and perhaps my spelling as well... I would like to take this chance to send my regards to Mr. Wayne Stewart who has taken his time and effort to present an objective understanding of the Druze which is something rare...]]>
My name is Chadi... I am Druze myself, and I like forbidden simplicity in everything including the way I choose to express myself. My English is average or even less, but I know just enough for what I need...I would like to express by overall content with the spirit of this Chapter and MBD in general.
Undoubtedly, the Druze agree that the Path of Metaphysics and Natural Science converge on the cross point of the Adamic Nature itself.. otherwise, the Druze would not be the only people on earth who refuse to admit to any form of repelling conflict to have ever existed between the philosophy of the Druze Prophet Plato and his Brother in Druze Prophethood Aristotle....According to the Druze, the Adamic nature itself is a giant proof of how the two worlds are meant to interact
together. If The Universal Constructor wanted things in any other way, he would have constructed humans as pure spirits or as spiritless bodies. Anything Metaphysical must be paralleled by a Natural Translation in order for it to be knowledgeable, and anything that is beyond knowledge might as well not exist on any level, metaphysical or natural... altogether. Existence = Knowledge, and Knoweldge = Translation, and Translation = a continous Bridge between the Metaphyscial and The Physcial that must be respected in the same way as the body must be exercised and nourished even until the last living breath... From here, the Superiority of the Metaphysical over the Natural could be compared to the Superiority of the Object Translated over the Body of Translation itself... Nothing more, no fancy metaphysical empires of proof beyond this simple fact... In the world of Gnosticism which is our world as Druze, The Metaphysical needs the physical and not only the other way around... The Creator, in the Druze Wisdom, created the world based on a Gnostic Need, the need to be known... If this need could have ever been manageable without the physical world, there is no need for this world to begin with... Anything scienctific in this world must be embraced as part of the translation 1st in order to be put into perspective... Resisting change in this respect is the language of Fear and not the language of Gnosis...

Those are few basic thoughts that come to mind which I may elaborate on later on in greater depth... Excuse my grammar and vocab and perhaps my spelling as well... I would like to take this chance to send my regards to Mr. Wayne Stewart who has taken his time and effort to present an objective understanding of the Druze which is something rare...]]> http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=7 Sat, 30 May 2009 22:41:23 -0400 http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=7
This is purely speculation, but given that the majority of people on earth today believe in some form of afterlife and given the growing trends of people giving up their supernatural and religious beliefs I think existential passage could well be a commonplace belief among future generations.

The implications of such a world could be both positive and negative, depending on our confidence in the notion of Existential Passage.
With the following possible implications I will assume that we are almost 100% confident in our belief about EP:

The positive implications:

- We would have a self-interest in ensuring the safety and well being of all future conscious life forms.

- The world may become a more productive place as we may be less afraid of death and therefore less prone to wasting our time with irrational beliefs that play upon our fears of death ie. Religion.

- We may wear our personalities more lightly, realizing that it was just pure chance that we ended up with our particular bodies, characteristics etc. We may feel less hatred to people who are harming us in some way.

- We may feel more connected with each other and be less harsh/cruel to others.

- We may live happier lives coming to a fuller understanding of our place in nature.


The negative implications:

- Whilst we may have a self-interest in ensuring the safety of future conscious life forms we may still cause pain to present day conscious life forms since EP gives us no self-interest in ensuring their well-being. So a strong belief in EP still may not change our current ethical motivation to help others in the present.

- EP is a complete lottery as to who we end up existing as/"passing" to after we die. Given that the majority of conscious beings here on earth suffer painful existences, or at least painful deaths, EP does not sound a very comforting notion. Death may depress many people even more than it currently does.

- Life may be treasured less. People who are tired of their lives may be more willing to suicide in order to play their luck on the EP lottery in the hope that they pass to some being with a pleasurable life. The suicide rate might skyrocket.

- People hoping for peace when they die may be depressed that they must continue living as some other conscious being.

- People may try and kill off certain other species to ensure they don't pass to them.


I don't believe many of the above would actually play out but those are just some possible implications of a world that embraces the notion of existential passage.

Feel free to post your thoughts.]]>
This is purely speculation, but given that the majority of people on earth today believe in some form of afterlife and given the growing trends of people giving up their supernatural and religious beliefs I think existential passage could well be a commonplace belief among future generations.

The implications of such a world could be both positive and negative, depending on our confidence in the notion of Existential Passage.
With the following possible implications I will assume that we are almost 100% confident in our belief about EP:

The positive implications:

- We would have a self-interest in ensuring the safety and well being of all future conscious life forms.

- The world may become a more productive place as we may be less afraid of death and therefore less prone to wasting our time with irrational beliefs that play upon our fears of death ie. Religion.

- We may wear our personalities more lightly, realizing that it was just pure chance that we ended up with our particular bodies, characteristics etc. We may feel less hatred to people who are harming us in some way.

- We may feel more connected with each other and be less harsh/cruel to others.

- We may live happier lives coming to a fuller understanding of our place in nature.


The negative implications:

- Whilst we may have a self-interest in ensuring the safety of future conscious life forms we may still cause pain to present day conscious life forms since EP gives us no self-interest in ensuring their well-being. So a strong belief in EP still may not change our current ethical motivation to help others in the present.

- EP is a complete lottery as to who we end up existing as/"passing" to after we die. Given that the majority of conscious beings here on earth suffer painful existences, or at least painful deaths, EP does not sound a very comforting notion. Death may depress many people even more than it currently does.

- Life may be treasured less. People who are tired of their lives may be more willing to suicide in order to play their luck on the EP lottery in the hope that they pass to some being with a pleasurable life. The suicide rate might skyrocket.

- People hoping for peace when they die may be depressed that they must continue living as some other conscious being.

- People may try and kill off certain other species to ensure they don't pass to them.


I don't believe many of the above would actually play out but those are just some possible implications of a world that embraces the notion of existential passage.

Feel free to post your thoughts.]]> http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=6 Sat, 30 May 2009 03:25:30 -0400 http://mbdefault.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=6 naturalism.org site, under the page titled, "DNS Replies".

Mr. Clark and I have examined the objections and posted our respective replies to all. The structure of the page is as below:

1. Objection from Michael Shleyfer
2. Replies from Wayne Stewart and Tom Clark (Nov. 2004)
3. Objection from John Urban
4. Reply from Wayne Stewart (Jan. 2005)
   

]]> naturalism.org site, under the page titled, "DNS Replies".

Mr. Clark and I have examined the objections and posted our respective replies to all. The structure of the page is as below:

1. Objection from Michael Shleyfer
2. Replies from Wayne Stewart and Tom Clark (Nov. 2004)
3. Objection from John Urban
4. Reply from Wayne Stewart (Jan. 2005)
   

]]>